Aug 25 2006Megatron Has A-Hole Mouth

I with you on this one, iwatchstuff guy.
Although the design looks pretty cool, it doesn't look anything like Megatron.
One of those situations where the artists are just like, "Fuck it, let's piss off ALL of the fans."

This looks like what would happen if the Japanese tried to make a cartoon version of Predator...

Note to self: Do not let Megatron perform fellatio on me.

Anything beats the Inredibly Gay Shrinking Handgun.

You know what this reminds me of? Dan Simmons series that starts with Hyperion. The character is called the Shrike. Below is an image of it.

http://www.seanparnell.com/Hyperion%20Cantos/Web%20Pages/Shrike%20and%20Tree%20of%20Thorns.htm

megatron looks like a juicer
they should do that thing where they make him look good. maybe optimus prime will look like a bread machine. i hope robots don't have feelings because if megatron read this...

MEGATRON REJUVINATE!

Yeah, it's totally the Shrike. Nice embodiment of evil, terrible version of Megatron. For pete's sake, he's a GUN. Not an "alien jet". If they didn't want to change sizes, they should've made him something at least a little bit gun-like -- a tank or a cannon or something.

more pictures from the movie here if anyone is interested

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/messagetopic.asp?p=2630276

A part of my childhood has just died today.

Praz wrote: One of those situations where the artists are just like, "Fuck it, let's piss off ALL of the fans."

Not true.

I am one of these artists, and speaking informally on behalf of the design team, I assure you we did not develop these new character designs with the intention of antagonizing the fanbase.

Without going into an elaborate explanation of the directives and constraints we worked within, let me simply say that we worked passionately and did our best to make the designs as cool and appropriate as was possible, and we stand by the results. If you don't like the designs, we're sorry. But at the end of the day, when you see these guys up on screen, photoreal and doing things you've never seen Transformers do before, I -guarantee- you will be happy this movie is being made.

But at the end of the day, when you see these guys up on screen, photoreal and doing things you've never seen Transformers do before, I -guarantee- you will be happy this movie is being made.

Look here, botguy, either you're making a movie for new, future fans, or you're making a movie for the current fans. And the current fans are fans because we liked what the Transformers already did. No one wants to see Transformers doing what we never saw them do before. No one wants to see Megatron as a fucking "alien jet." We want to see Megatron transform into a large motherfucking gun and blow some shit up.

What's next? Does Soundwave turn into a fucking iPod? Does Optimus Prime transform into Willie Nelson's biodiesel tour bus?

If you're going to change all the characters at least have the decency to change the title of the film, too, to something like "Spiky Transforming Robots."

I bet you anything this is to throw us off.

-Or- Take into consideration, remember in the first ep of Transformers, they all had different Cybertronian vehicle types?

Maybe this is something to do with it.

Botguy. All you need to do is make the transformations realistic, in that there are no disappearing parts, like in the cartoon. This movie should be made to attract new fans, but it should also be made to satisfy the current fans, which is what Michael Bay SAID he was trying to do. You could make a photo-real CG pile of horse crap, and it wouldn't change the fact that it's horse crap. Furthermore, I don't think I will be happy about this movie being made if Megatron looks like a metal Predator. Screw your designs. They suck.

More than meets the eye!

More than meets the eye!

If botguy really is one of the designers ... I'm really sorry dude. I'm sorry that you had to be a part of this horrible frikkin' mess. I'm sorry that you guys couldn't come up with something better. I'm sorry that you guys had your heads stuck so far up your asses that all you could see was crap and oh look ... now that's what the Transformers look like as well. I'm sorry that your name will unfortunately be attached to one of Hollywood's worst attempts at a remake. I am very, very sorry ... for you. Lucky for you that you get paid up front as you go regardless if the movie bombs or not.

Why are these monsters even being called Transformers? What a slap in the face to Transformers fans and movie-goers around the world. How very unfortunate.

If botguy really is one of the designers ... I'm really sorry dude. I'm sorry that you had to be a part of this horrible frikkin' mess. I'm sorry that you guys couldn't come up with something better. I'm sorry that you guys had your heads stuck so far up your asses that all you could see was crap and oh look ... now that's what the Transformers look like as well. I'm sorry that your name will unfortunately be attached to one of Hollywood's worst attempts at a remake. I am very, very sorry ... for you. Lucky for you that you get paid up front as you go regardless if the movie bombs or not.

Why are these monsters even being called Transformers? What a slap in the face to Transformers fans and movie-goers around the world. How very unfortunate.

Wow you guys are pretty crazy.

Megatron turning into a hand held gun was the single stupidest thing I ever saw in an other wise cool cartoon. Even as a kid that was just dumb.

Anyway, Megatron as an Alien spaceship is true to the cartoon series so I don't know why everyone is so upset here.

I think he looks pretty over the top too - but like many of you admit he looks like the embodiment of evil. Pretty gritty.

This is transformers for a more grown up crowd - only some of whom are fanatics like you guys. If you want the cheese go back to the 80s and watch the cartoon movie again.

Hey Botguy, I can't wait to see what you guys do when they decide to make other childhood memories "as cool and appropriate as was possible." Maybe give the Smurf's giant penis's that shoot laser beams. How about making Strawberry Shortcake launch rockets from her cybernautic cooch?

You asshats need to leave well enough alone, before I summon up the Thundercats to come beat your asses.

CGI bastards.

Botguy wrote: et me simply say that we worked passionately and did our best to make the designs as cool and appropriate as was possible, and we stand by the results.

Forgive me for being a pre-emptive ass, as well as posting a standard flame entry.

But when you come up with a design that's cool... and maybe a little appropriete... you let us know.

Because... even if that wasn't supposed to be a transformer, that's a pretty hideous design.

Again, you'll have to forgive me. I've been frustrated about the whole thing since I saw the name "Michael Bay" pop up during the trailer. Right under the title. like it's a good thing. (steven spielburg didn't help either).

Steven Spielberg ruins everything.

Let’s face it. This upcoming Transformers movie was going to be a generic, shitty Transformers-like rip-off until they bought the rights to the real Transformers and Spielberg hopped on board. The intention here is not to make a Transformers movie, but rather a "lets do whatever we want and change the characters and story so it fits within our limited CGI capabilities....then we will slap the name Transformers on it because people remember that brand."

Hollywood wonders why attendance and box office are at all-time lows. Shame on you, movie makers. You guys really suck at what you do.

I know MegaTron. And THAT, sir, is no MegaTron.

Vaporboy. You're a homo. The design sucks. You suck. Hang yourself.

The idea of Megatron transforming into a gun is pretty stupid (given the redundancy), and I welcome a new non-robot form. I think the idea was marketing genius (what kid *wouldn't* want a robot that changed into a gun?), but it doesn't translate well on the screen.

However, the images of the 'new' Megatron are far too organic/alien-esque. Too many curves and details. Clean, strong lines are the way to go in my opinion. The thing the artist(s) have conceived is certainly evil-looking. It's just not Megatron.

While on the topic of redundancy, transforming a decepticon into a jet also seems pretty stupid, given that the decepticons can fly in robot form. Even worse, a number of other decepticons already transform into planes (unless they change that as well).

Other questions....
Where does Optimus' trailer go when he transforms? In the cartoon is seemed to simply materialize out of nowhere.

Autobots can fly in robot form, can't they? At least, they could in the first few episodes. But whenver they were falling into a gorge or off a cliff, they seemed to lose this ability. What gives?

@#10 - I grant you that the finished product will look better in motion than the still we're currently seeing. I guess I'll just have to wait, and trust you guys till then.

@#24 - I don't remember the Autobots ever flying. Unlike the Decepticons, they were originally built simply to perform manual labor and thus had different abilities.

Have you seen the toys? This one has nasty sharp edges:

Will it result in this scene on Christmas morning?

(from ANIMATION NATION)

Boy, you guys are mean! Ahaha...

I've worked on several "summer" movies that got high marks for visuals but bad ones for writing, storytelling etc.. But it's a new and fabulous experience to have my work shat on BEFORE the movie even comes out. Rad! BTW, I didn't design Mega specifically...but I'm sure some of you guys are going to dump on all the characters equally, so same diff.

Anyway, angry fellows, all I can say, and this is irrefutably true, is that if you want your perfect Transformers movie made (YOUR perfect one, since there is no objectively perfect one), you will have to make it yourself. And if you want it to have the insane action and production values (not to mention the marketing scope) of the movie we're doing, you will need a REALLY big budget. And for this, you will have to become a filmmaker (school, breaking in, etc.) and spend many years working your way up to the production management and moneymaking track record of Michael Bay. It's very easy to hurl insults at people like Bay, but not so easy to get to where he is, I promise you.

Of course in this age of cheaply available camera equipment and visual effects technology, you could also do an "indie" Transformers movie out of your garage, and maybe it could be really good. Certainly the age is coming where individuals working outside the Hollywood system can produce films with the kind of production values only available to the big boys today, and I assure you this is as exciting to me as it is to you.

But in the meantime, if you want to see a big, fun Transformers movie, you're stuck with the kind of film we're making...something where the franchise has been slightly reshaped to suit the taste of a successful director and the mass audience he serves, not religiously followed to please a relatively small, hardcore fanbase.

So go see our movie (a few times), buy a couple toys, get angry, and go out and tell your own, better Transformers stories. Seriously. Nobody's stopping you. And in the meantime, try to be a little less nasty. There are plenty of things in the world worth getting really angry about, but a Transformers film is not one of them.

"Autobots can fly in robot form, can't they? At least, they could in the first few episodes. But whenver they were falling into a gorge or off a cliff, they seemed to lose this ability. What gives?"

Well Sardius, that's what we call Lack of Continuity. LoC often appears on TV shows and movies with writers that don't care to actually learn the characters and their storylines, but instead just pound out some shit and hope it all works in the end. The people most likely to call attention to LoC? Fanboys. See http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Fanboy

Great! MegaTron looks like a Predator ripoff. I can live with that. But why turn Bumblebee into a Camaro?

yeah botguy. cos i'm sure changing things to suit the mass audience and the director really worked for Batman And Robin and didn't work for the lauded Batman Begins but the comic book only has a small fanbase. Nolan was wrong in caputring the spirit and essence and parts of the comic to make his faithful batman movie. Just like Transformers which it's most famous and recognizable brand was G1, which is what people are going to expect when they walk into the theatres, albeit an updated version, not a reimaging. If the brand name wasn't so important and you guys are above it and the movie itself is above it, then you wouldn't have the supporting autobots with the same names or even the title 'Transformers'. I work in hollywood, i know how things work, and the transformers name is very much aimed at the nostalgic crowd and fans.

Dude in hollywood you can fail upwards. Look at Jon Peters. Look at Michael Bay.

Yeah flames on Prime are appropriate, I mean he's only the noble leader, he loves to appeal to the pimp my robot crowd.

If you are a designer you did a bad job, because virtually everyone agrees that not only does he not resemble megatron at all, but he doesn't even resemble a transformer. You did a bad design when he looks like he will change into a chandelier, a tribal tattoo or a kitchen knife set.

WOW. Botguy! I mean to take credit for this is honorable. Apparently you are the guy that shit on the coats. I am a working designer and can say THAT IS NOT DESIGN. It is like a secretary getting a copy photoshop and thinking she can call herself a designer. It is the embodiment of all that is wrong with cinema and pop culture currently. It uses the standards cliches of design that have literally gone from intense and scary (see Alien) to trite and plain. This design is a complete failure because the decisions make no sense. Every piece of design is supposed to be well thought out. Obviously, you haven't read a design book in years or you would know that. Since you were part of the design team answer me these questions: Why does Optimus Prime have flames? Why does Megatron have sharp teeth? Why are there so many tertiary design elements that distract the viewer? Why don't the robots have armor to protect their innards? Why did you decide to make them "cool" and "hip" instead of "classic" and "humanisitic"? I am not asking you to just trace someone's else design from 25 years ago but for christ's sakes at least RESPECT THE SOURCE MATERIAL! You are the new UPS logo: already dated, tired and cheesy compared to the old one: classic, simple and elegant (not to mentioned designed by the great Paul Rand). Wow. Suckytown 5000!

the thing is a cluttered overcomplicated mess. no focal point, just a ridiculous mess because to be evil you have to look extreme evil.

You are supposed to bring Transformers to life, not reimagine them. You are supposed to make a Batman Begins, not a Batman and Robin. Tweak it cinematically.

G1 is the most popular brand of transformers, even the comic released by dreamwave, the G1 comic sold incredible amounts and was the most popular Dreamwave comic, even managing to outsell X-men for a while. What does that say?

You are going to get a nasty surprise when people walk into the theatres and they see these robots. Their reactions will be 'this is transfomers?'

Flames on Prime = Nipples on Batman

Holy whore, guys! Such venom!

Guess I'll never be signing prints at ComicCon, because I would literally get lynched by you brave culture vigilantes. Thanks for the warning. I'll pass it along to all the other no-talent hack assholes who worked with me for a year in our proud quest to make you as unhappy as possible.

I've been trying to defend the movie without undermining any of the players or delving into politics, and without responding in kind to the viciously personal tone of many posts. I was hoping that this might elevate the conversation and inspire the complainers to give the film the benefit of the doubt, which it deserves, or at least realize that the situation is more complicated than the unrealistic "this is what I want, so give it to me now!!!". So much for that.

Speaking more candidly than I really ought to, the fact is that I agree with some of the criticisms and I totally get the worried Batman comparison. But witness these facts:
- Before Tim Burton's Batman, fans went wild compaining about the casting of Michael Keaton. Did the film suck in the end? No.
- When the SAME director took a shot at another franchise, Planet of the Apes, he went too far with changes and the movie was criticized for it. Even with an experienced franchise director there is no guarantee of great results.
- Batman Returns is a VERY uncommon piece of genius - a franchise film that cuts to the very soul of the material in such an immediate, real way that it not only elevates the material but makes it emotionally accessible to just about anyone. You can't expect this level of quality when it's only been done ONCE, guys. And no, X-Men doesn't count.
- Superman Returns stayed so close to its chosen source material (the Donner films) that people felt they'd seen it all before, and the movie ended up a box office failure.

All of this goes to say that there are no guarantees in Hollywood, and we're all very lucky (especially those of us who bust our balls working on movies) when the planets align and a great, big-scale franchise movie emerges from the screen. Michael Bay's Transformers may not be the Transformers movie you've always wanted, but it's the only one you've got and I think you'll like it a LOT more than you suspect right now. But who knows, maybe you'll hate it. Maybe I'll hate it, too. But either way, to make more or less personal attacks on me and my coworkers who have done our jobs as best we could in the situation we were given, and emerged on the other side with some cool, innovative stuff (in my obviously unesteemed opinion), is ignorant and obnoxious. Come to think of it, maybe my teammates and I WILL go to ComicCon next year and see if the "Transformers tough guys" on this board and elsewhere want to insult us to our faces. Sure is easy to be anonymously cruel to unseen strangers, isn't it? The internet has made such gentlemen of us all.

I could sit here and detail all the ways in which the G1 designs needed overhauling (try to imagine rubbery chrome faces in live action, megafans), and all the conceptual thinking behind our changes, but it's not worth it. I guess my mistake was to assume at the beginning that this board was anything other than a rantfest. Pardon my intrusion; I really was trying to stand up for the movie, but all I did was provide a nice juicy target.

Oh, and by the way, "tilemcgillus", you wanna post the URL of your web portfolio? We'd all be happy to give you some constructive criticism on the stuff you generate as a "working designer". Any great robot designs? Hey, maybe some of your talent could even rub off on me.

Ooops...when I said Batman Returns was genius, I obviously meant Batman Begins. Nolan rocks.

Ok, last post. I promise.

Somebody put together a page which attempts to show how our Megatron design is such a departure from the consistent and beautiful legacy of past Mega design. Check it:

http://www.seibertron.com/infozone/transformers101.php

Seems to me they've proven quite the opposite of what they intended. Not only are the older Mega designs all over the map, they mainly look like complete ass. Look at those toys, not in your hazy childhood memories, but dead on. It's a joke that hardcore fans are ranting against the Bay film for departing from this ragtag mess.

Nostalgia is fine, but don't pretend we've replaced timeless, gorgeous design with total crap. It's simply not true. Ok, now I need to sign off forever before Paramount legal tracks my ass down.

Enjoy the flick.

So you say so eloquently that Megatron looks "like ass". This proves you should have never been hired in the first place. All of you should be fired and a competant Japanese robot designer like Shoji Kawamori should be put in your place. Your movie will go over as well in Japan as your master Bay's Pearl Harbor flick.

botguy: Considering Paramount hasn't gone after Don Murphy for the hateful, slanderous rhetoric he's been spewing at fans lately, I'm sure you're safe. Have fun making Transformers: In Name Only!

Wow -- this just came to my attention. Botguy -- if you're still reading -- I'm *really* sorry you got caught up in all this. I've been a vocal "anti-Megatron" guy from the start -- but not because of the design itself. There's nothing wrong with it. In fact, whoever did it is phenominally talented -- I thought it was CGI at first. However, it just doesn't bear *any* resemblence to the classic Megatron character. It looks like it belongs in a monster movie or another sci-fi film. I'm sorry.

I, for one, don't want a G1 remake on the screen, but I still want to be able to identify iconic characters on sight -- even if they're reimagined a little. The recently leaked Prime pic is a... uh... prime example of what I'm talking about. It's modern, it's believable... and it's still 100% Optimus Prime. I feel the same way about Bumblebee.

Megatron, however, is just *too* far removed for my tastes with no apparent visual connection to any of the previous incarnations.

Don't take the backlash *too* personally. (yeah, yeah... I should talk) People just had been expecting to see an updated G1 on the big screen, and when the leaked images showed them otherwise, there were pitchforks and torches for everyone.

You had a job to do, you did it to the best of your ability, cashed your check and moved on. Being a freelancer myself, sometimes that's all you can do. Sometimes you have really great ideas, but your client tells you otherwise. Sometimes you're just at the mercy of the people cutting the check. And even if the public at large isn't happy with your work, your client's opinion is all that matters. And that's complicated even more so when you've got so many people with so many different ideas about what this movie should be calling the shots.

So I really think the studio has taken notice that Megatron isn't sitting well with many of the fans. Taking it out on Botguy isn't going to change that now -- we can only hope that there's time for some changes and that they're willing to make those changes.

However, threatening to lynch the artist probably won't score many points. It isn't going to accomplish anything either.

If you want a chance to voice your opinion about these designs, head over to Seibertron's Q&A with producer Don Murphy. He *is* listening. He may not agree, but I honestly think he'll make sure "the powers that be" see the concern fans have about this.

http://seibertron.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=88716

This was just brought to my attention. Geez, Botguy -- I'm sorry! I really am. As one of the most vocal 'anti-Megatron' guys, I'm sorry it's come to this.

I think whoever did the drawing is incredibly talented. I could've swore it was CGI the first time I saw it. And it's not a bad design -- it would would fine in a number of sci-fi or horror films.

For me, it just doesn't have *any* visual connetion to any previous incarnation of Megatron. I never expected a G1 remake, but I at least would like to be able to recognize classic characters on sight even if they have been reimagined a little. Prime is an ideal example. So is Bumblebee. Both are obviously who they are supposed to be, yet they're new at the same time. I don't have the same reaction to Megatron. I'm sorry.

Personally attacking the artist won't solve anything. He was paid to do his job and was probably at the mercy of several people trying to figure out which direction would (in their minds) be the most succesful design for this film.

He did his job. Was paid for it. And was only there to please his client. As a freelancer myself, you do what you can do but honestly have very little say if a client has a certain idea in mind. He wasn't hired to please you, but the studio.

If you want a chance to be heard, stop by Seibertron's Q&A with producer Don Murphy. The studio *is* listening. Whether or not they agree... ? Well, maybe if we ask 'em REAL nice they'll be a little more inclined to change some things:
http://seibertron.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=88716

What's next? Blaster turns into a MOTO razor with MP3 playback. Michael Bay disgusts me.

I found this funny take-off of the transformer movie, it's pretty funny.

http://www.thehollywoodreviewer.com/?p=26

Botguy. I considered your offer and have decided to decline the invitation due to the fact that I have admitted to downloading a pirate script on this movie and do not want the studio to have my name, address, phone number and resume. I will however give you a brief overview of my work. I have worked for several reputatable museums and am currently employed as a graphic designer for a large agency. I do as much pro bono design for charities and social benefial organizations as possible. With that out of the way, I would like to apologize for the incendiary remarks I made. I was demeaning and rude and am sorry. I still feel very strongly that the designs do not work. This time I will actually give reasoning. To me, design is about problem solving. The design of (specifically) Megatron is something that has created many more problems than it has solved. The problems that needed to be solved (IMHO) in the design were: appease the aesthetic the production and director were after, apppease your design aesthetic and appease the fans and people fimilar with the product. I belive you did not, or were not allowed to meet the last requirement. This may in fact be the most important requirement. Immediately recognition is key in a redesign of such an icon (unless you were instructed specifically to not do that, in which case, I feel your pain). The current incarnation just seems to play into the current Hollywood and cultural epidemic, appealing to the LCD (Lowest Common Denominator). This design sticks with the standard alien/monster/villain design used in just about every medium to date. It has echoes of Doomsday, Shrike, The Titan A.E. villains, Guvyer etc. Just the fact that Megatron has large fangs seems to go against the entire idea of the transformers. In no way am I asking that you entirely recreate the original Generation One design. In fact, the Optimus Prime design (besides the gaudy and completely unnecessary flames) seems to do just what I mentioned. I read that you did not work on the Megatron design, so you may have done an amazing job, I do not know. I stand by my opinion but apologize for the manner in which I approached your design team.

God, i HATE Hollywood.

Keeping Megatron's G1 model would be lame and would'nt work on the big screen. This is fair enough but there are other ways to incorperate elements of the original. Just goin "screw it", throwing the original designs out the window and declaring to the world at large that you'll do as you damn well please with an iconic character like Megatron is frankly pretty dumb. The only people who might appreciate your efforts are those who have no idea what Transformers is and what it used to be.

Jesus man, the shrinking gun was stupid and didnt work even in the cartoon. So they killed Megatron and created Galvatron, Megatron Mark 2. Different look, same guy but you could still tell who it used to be.

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ok so we finally get a live action transformers movie bumblebee isn't bumblebee ok i can live with that i don't really like the VW's anyway so fair enough.
Optimus Kinda in a long reaching Manga slash todd Mcfarlane artist impression way does look like prime. Ok so it isn't the transformers that i sat and watched in the cinemas when i was but a young lad, but megatron SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!! where is the fusion cannon!!!!!! he basically looks like he should star in the next alien film of the year 2050's remake of the wickerman!

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